About the Monster

[nendo]

yeh its explosions. u can hear the planes. am sure. also the explosions.

if it was cloverfield making the bridge collapse then what caused the orange light?

i believe 100% it was an explosion

[wmgreene]

As beth is saying "we're going to wait here" you can hear a large jet overhead, definitely a heavy bomber not an F-18, and the characteristic whistle of a bomb falling...then orange glow on wall, kaboom, sparks, masonry gives way, and Rob smothers Beth.
The "investigation" details from the Bluray are really interesting...they indicate Hud's body was never found. It sounds like they really did literally level the city. I was thinking they dropped a few 5000 pounders on Clover in Central Park but the Bluray info also indicates Coney Island was razed too...I don't now what that means. Did Clover make it to Brooklyn or beyond before the USAF "ultimately" bomb him/her/it to death? Another interesting point from the Bluray was that the parasites "were as much a reason for enacting Hammerdown". That doesn't really make sense to me. The parasites were spreading out everywhere...probably in subway tunnels, sewers, basements, the rivers and harbor. Effectively clearing the parasites would put Hammerdown on par with the firestorms of Dresden or Tokyo...that would mean hundreds or even thousands of heavy bombers deployed. I doubt heavy nuclear ordinance would be an option, first of all, if used in Central Park, the camera would have been encased in molten bridge, and second, I'd save the nukes for Clover's mother/father/full-grown-thing because if Clover's a baby, the sequel is going to need bigger bombs.
Ok, just one more thought. I was just reading some history on battleships. Turns out they were very resitant to airblast of a nuke, but not to the shockwave of an underwater detonation. I tend to liken clover to a sort of walking-battleship, at least in size and weight. I still believe the DoD was aware of Clover before landfall, but that they were totally caught off guard that it was amphibious. I can't think of any reason for the jolt and power outage at the beginning of the film other than a nuke being set off underwater. I think the shockwave could have caused the "earthquake" and the EMP could have caused the power outage. Even if Clover couldn't survive on land, it couldn't be allowed to wreck New York harbor like it did Chuai. They'd have to try to stop it. Anyway, say they did try to bomb Clover underwater and it didn't work, then a similar shockwave would be even less likely to damage it in air (water transfers pressure wave energy more efficiently). The only above ground options I see for bagging Clover may be some sort of penetrating bomb, maybe a bunker buster down it's throat, or perhaps burning it, just dumping napalm on it until it's cooked...then open a fastfood chain selling Clover-burgers to pay repairations to NYC.

[nendo]

Another interesting point from the Bluray was that the parasites "were as much a reason for enacting Hammerdown". That doesn't really make sense to me. The parasites were spreading out everywhere...probably in subway tunnels, sewers, basements, the rivers and harbor. Effectively clearing the parasites would put Hammerdown on par with the firestorms of Dresden or Tokyo...that would mean hundreds or even thousands of heavy bombers deployed

am not sure i follow. what don't u get about "were as much a reason for enacting Hammerdown".?

from my understanding it basicly means. the parasite were also the reason for the military to get the permision or for it to be put into law for them to bomd new york.

are you trying to say they might as well of used a nuke?

also they don't know that this is a baby. for all they know this is the mother etc. so saying lets save it for the mother isn't realy a good option as they don't know that this is a baby. we know because we was told by the people who made it. but the military most likly don't and or think that this is the only one

[Chris]

That statement was pretty clear to me. It doesn't make sense for them to enact a hammerdown for the parasites AS MUCH AS it makes sense for them to do that on Clover. He explained it right after...basically the parasites are already in subway tunnels, and probably sewers, etc...Other stuff that's UNDERGROUND. So what sense would it make to do a "hammerdown" on things that are underground, unless it's a nuke? Because honestly, what good is it going to do if they're underground? You don't even know where to look to drop the bombs. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.

[wmgreene]

Yeah, I was just kidding about saving bigger bombs for the sequel. It's unclear what the military might know about Clover. If they found the cocoons in the ocean, they may be able to see that one had hatched or been drilled or something. But yeah, I doubt they'd have had any idea what to make of it's maturity, or that 155mm Howitzers wouldn't be able to draw a drop of blood, or pretty much anything about Clover except that it was big, nasty, and in NY.

I guess what I meant was, trying to bomb the parasites would be like trying to bomb cockroaches or ants. They will probably kill many, but certainly not all. The parasites are going to need to be cleaned up on the ground, which would probably be easier if the city was left somewhat intact.

Now I'm wondering, did they bomb the hell out of NY because Clover was so hard to kill, or because they literally intended to "level the whole gaddam city".

Speaking of bombing, the mk82 is generally used as a low collateral damage kind of bomb...they say in the Bluray notes that the B2 dropped 80 of these 500 pound bombs on Clover in the bombing run shown in the film. Which is odd, because I counted 16 explosions, which I thought was intentional as 16 is the maximum number of JDAMs (probably attached to 1000 or 2000 pound bombs) a B2 can drop at once. Check out that scene...maybe I'm wrong about 16, but I really don't think it shows anywhere near 80 explosions.

[nendo]

Originally Posted by wmgreene

Yeah, I was just kidding about saving bigger bombs for the sequel. It's unclear what the military might know about Clover. If they found the cocoons in the ocean, they may be able to see that one had hatched or been drilled or something. But yeah, I doubt they'd have had any idea what to make of it's maturity, or that 155mm Howitzers wouldn't be able to draw a drop of blood, or pretty much anything about Clover except that it was big, nasty, and in NY.

I guess what I meant was, trying to bomb the parasites would be like trying to bomb cockroaches or ants. They will probably kill many, but certainly not all. The parasites are going to need to be cleaned up on the ground, which would probably be easier if the city was left somewhat intact.

Now I'm wondering, did they bomb the hell out of NY because Clover was so hard to kill, or because they literally intended to "level the whole gaddam city".

Speaking of bombing, the mk82 is generally used as a low collateral damage kind of bomb...they say in the Bluray notes that the B2 dropped 80 of these 500 pound bombs on Clover in the bombing run shown in the film. Which is odd, because I counted 16 explosions, which I thought was intentional as 16 is the maximum number of JDAMs (probably attached to 1000 or 2000 pound bombs) a B2 can drop at once. Check out that scene...maybe I'm wrong about 16, but I really don't think it shows anywhere near 80 explosions.

ahh yeah i see what u mean now. yeh u wouldn't be able to get all the parasites in the end. but then again u have a good chance or greatly reducing there number by bomding new york. they will be some under ground sure but atleats u got alot on the surface

it did say 80 yeah and there wasn't 80 in the movie. that we saw. it could of re-armed a couple of time which we didn't see. we know the bomds killed clover thanks to jj but we don't know when it was killed. it could of been the 15th pass of the bomds that it got killed

[wmgreene]

Here's some info in the B2 from wiki:
This uses its passive electronically scanned array APQ-181 radar to correct GPS errors of targets and gain much better than laser-guided weapon accuracy when "dumb" gravity bombs are equipped with a GPS-aided "smart" guidance tail kit. It can bomb 16 targets in a single pass when equipped with 1,000 or 2,000-pound bombs, or as many as 80 when carrying 500-lb bombs.

I know the B2s have been or are being upgraded for better performance against moving targets, which generally would be assigned to missiles, and bombs reserved for stationary targets. If all 16 (or 80 bombs - depending whether you believe your eyes or the notes) were direct hits on Clovie's head, I think it would have been all over right there on 9th Ave.

It brings up an interesting point, maybe the info on the Bluray is part of the story-line itself...meaning, maybe some info is distorted, excluded or covered up on purpose for military secrecy or lessening accountability. I tend the think cover-ups are probably very common in real life, and maybe the "DoD notes" on the Bluray are setting up some elements of conspiracy.

Anyway, too bad that helicopter pilot wasn't flying higher. Seems they already knew clover could jump and take down helicopters. It's unbelievable able it could jump to 560 ft. that's almost twice its height. There must be something very unique about Clover's physiology for it to be able to be so huge, yet still have the relative agility of a dog.

I wonder if Clovers were some sort of super-dinosaur. They could probably remain in stasis almost indefinitely at the seabed, where I believe temperatures are actually at or below freezing. Somehow the intense pressure keeps the water from freezing. And perhaps seabed nectar is like amniotic fluid in the cocoons and like eggs, not all of the them have viable embryos. Maybe Targruato had the bad luck of cracking open one with a live Clover inside. I can see a scene in the sequel showing a Clover casually stepping on a T-Rex while it goes about gulping down a brontosaurus. Or maybe it was being in stasis so long that made them get so big. Perhaps they went into hibernation when the dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago, and the plates move so the cocoons ended up deep in the ocean, and maybe the parasites played some kind of symbiotic role, perhaps providing nutrients to the cocoons while using them as a place to live. That might explain how something newly hatched could already have so many parasites.

[nendo]

you just mad eme think of a point. what if seabed nector is like egg white. clover is in his egg. been there for thousands of years kinda like a seamonkey where they can remain in eggs for a very very very long time.

and the chui station started to drill this egg for its nector. not entirly sure what they were drilling into. probably had no idea it was an egg. and after much drilling it finaly disturbed the long status of clover?

the parasites got so big because they have been with the clover monster for generations. like flees. if the dog got bigger over centuries then fless would also get bigger aswell to be able to easily move through its fur and penetrate the skin.

so one evolving was a direct impact on the other evolution

and we do know nevile page talked about them being more for an evolution purpose

[wmgreene]

I agree with the idea that there was some form of co-evolution. The monster seems like it may have roots in reptilian species and the parasites bear resemblance to crustaceans.

One thing to keep in mind about the parasites is that they are aggressive hunters. In the movie we see that they waste no time in attacking people, and they do a pretty good job of stalking Rob and Co. in the subway, getting very close to their prey before being detected. I would assume that they must have possessed or developed those behavioral traits on the sea floor. Maybe the egg is more than just a simple egg. Perhaps, thanks to the parasites, it is also a kind of hive, one from which the parasites go out to hunt and bring back nutrients, kind of like bees gather pollen to produce honey or hornets hunt insects and bring the remains back to their nests. The eggs containing the Clovers may have been a perfect place for the parasites to live in, and in turn they could have "fed" the monster for thousands of years, allowing it to grow so big, perhaps mutate or whatever.

That could fit in with Hud remarking about the parasite trying to drag him away. Perhaps they instinctively try to capture food and bring it back to a nest. Maybe they found some place in the sewer or subway tunnels and decided to move in and stock it with fresh Gen-X meat. The toxic bite would have been a good way to ensure their prey didn't wander too far if it managed to get away...then they could collect the remains anyway.

If the monsters did actually exist and roam the earth in the past, being at the top of the food chain, they probably would have been far fewer in population that other species, and therefore, perhaps much less likely to be found in fossilized form. I highly doubt that more than a fraction of extinct species has actually been discovered. Or, perhaps they just don't often actually die, perhaps when they get sick or are injured they go back to their cocoons like the monster in the manga does.